Wild Animal Refuge Needs Your Help!

[Whirling Dervish]

Hi all,

I got this email earlier today from a friend I work with. She knows the poster personally, and I have also talked to her on the phone. I am posting her original email (with her permission) and taken her address off, but she offered to leave her cell phone on the post. We also discussed other fundraising possibilities, so I know she is putting in great effort on the local front and not relying on an email campaign to do the work.

After speaking with her tonight, I have a better idea of what she's looking for. First, it seems there are 8 weeks to save the sanctuary itself, or animals will be displaced or euthanized. Second, she is looking for ongoing support for the operation, hoping to find one corporate sponsor per month who would donate once each year.

So here is her letter. Thanks for reading it. Please feel free to send this to corporations and individuals who you think can help, and to post suggestions for fundraising for the project.

Thanks again, and I'll keep you posted on what happens.

Linda
__________________________________________________
Hey folks,

Here's your chance to make a true difference with some local animals...

And yes - I'm talking lions, tigers, and bears :)

I volunteer at Prairie Wind Animal Refuge. They care for many rescued exotic animals that were abused/neglected or illegally obtained from roadside zoos, furfarms, canned hunts, etc. Unlike a zoo, the animals aren't on display. Instead, they are nursed back to health...and cared for.

While volunteering this past Saturday (cleaning pens and feeding the animals), I overheard a conversation the founder was having on the phone. He mentioned something about a realtor coming out. As he hung up, I asked him if I may inquire as to what he was talking about. He said that after 16 years, he can no longer keep the refuge open. As a 501(c) 3 non-profit and a federally licensed Wild Animal Refuge (the ONLY true refuge in Colorado), Prairie Wind is totally dependent on contributions. For 16 years, enough money has come in to feed the animals there: 13 wolves, 11 Siberian tigers, 5 African lions, 5 black bears, 5 black bear cubs, 2 lynx, a cougar, a bobcat, a black panther, 2 arctic fox, 2 coyotes, a myriad of turkeys and chickens, a percheron and a clydesdale.

However since Katrina, the Sunami and the various international disasters since then, interest has shifted out of the state. But the animals' demand for food hasn't decreased. Each tiger eats 30 pounds of meat a sitting and they eat 2 to 3 times a week. As you can imagine - the cost of feeding these large exotic animals is quite high!

Because of this, he's facing foreclosure. Which means the animals would have to either be displaced - or tragically put to sleep. As a true animal lover, the thought of this happening really does bring tears to my eyes. That's why I want to help...and hope you'd help as well!

I have decided to personally raise $50,000 for the refuge within the next two months. I know you all and you all know at least 20 people and they know 20 people and so forth. Please send what you can and send this message on to others to send. I am also trying to find corporate sponsors who can give significant donations on a yearly basis. If any of you have ideas of companies who are interested in supporting a Colorado 501(c) 3, please call me with their information or give a contact there my cell number - 303-888-4345.

Please help us keep the refuge open for the lovely sentient beings who depend on it for their very lives. Please make your checks payable to:
Prairie Wind Animal Refuge
22111 County Road 150
Agate, Colorado 80101

PLEASE notate "BLITZ" in the memo field so we can track my success with this campaign.

I (and of course Michael and all of Prairie Wind) GREATLY appreciate anything you can contribute and anyone you can tell. Our strength is in your numbers.

Thanks and love to all of you.
Debbie Brush

P.S. Please call me with additional questions as well. If you desire copies of the 501(c) 3 documentation for tax purposes, I will GLADLY furnish it. If anyone desires to contribute significant amounts and wants to see what their donation will do - we can arrange a visit to the Refuge.

[vicki2]

If at all possible, your friend should get a national news network out to cover the funding raising and why it's happening. There are a number of celebrities who support wildlife refuges, and out of a news piece you may find a long term solution for the animals.

[HollysMom]

Another thing that the owner might do is set up a PayPal account. I know that in general I will not send my check to people that I don't know, but I would gladly send a donation via PayPal if an account were set up.

[Whirling Dervish]

Excellent ideas, both! I hadn't thought about either one of those. Debbie saw these, BTW, and said she's happy about your posts--she'll be checking back a lot, I'm sure.

[vicki2]

She could literally set up a website overnight for this cause, and get the 'donation' button attached too. Stormpay is often better for straight donations than paypal or so friends tell me. It's quicker for both the donator and the organization.

[HollysMom]

Please update us on this serious situation. I can't send much, but if a website is posted, I'd love to send even a $5 donation to the refuge. I'm sure that once the crisis has passed, if the refuge leaves the site up for people to look at and maybe "interact" with some of the animals there, they could still get some donations to help keep them open.

[Cindyfortheanimals]

It’s a real travesty that posts like this get out into the real world where real people that really care about the welfare of abused and abandoned exotic animals and other not-so- exotic animals read them and, with less information than the passionate person that wrote this, dip into their hard-earned money and send it off thinking it’s going to help the poor animals at a refuge. It’s like sending money to your favorite charity only to find that less than 10% of what you sent actually goes for what you thought it did. Every 501(c) 3 non-profit is subject to public scrutiny and is required by federal law to open up its operation to any person that asks and is required to provide proof of how its donations are spent. There are thousands of non-profit wildlife sanctuaries across the Unites States that do not and cannot hold up to this scrutiny. Yes, there are hundreds of thousands of animals of all kinds that are abused, neglected, abandoned, mistreated, bought and sold all over the US at the present time by thousands of unscrupulous people and organizations that prey on the hearts and souls of individuals like yourself to keep them in business.

So what’s a person to do? Well, first and foremost, please never lose your passion, as a true animal lover, to help an animal in need but use this same passion to spend your time, energy and money wisely. Use this passion to find out the whole story of an organization that you want to help so your contribution is used in the best interest of the animals you want to help and save. Understand the laws in the state where your organization resides and don’t let threats of euthanasia cloud your judgment as almost all states have a relocation program for sanctuaries that are closing. Contrary to what some might tell you, there are many accredited wildlife sanctuaries across the US that have room for animals and are quite willing to take them in. Prairie Wind Animal Refuge is not a Federally Licensed Animal Refuge. It only holds an annually-renewable Wildlife “Sanctuary” License issued by the State of Colorado and is always subject to inspection by the State Division of Wildlife. The “Sanctuary” heading, according to the Colorado Division of Wildlife, was recently added to the statutes in 2006 for current grandfathered-in Refuges that were not open to the public and not considered exhibitors because they lost their licenses to exhibit to the public, which is the reason Prairie Wind Animal Refuge is the only one listed as a “Sanctuary”. They filed for their non-profit status with the IRS in 1993 and were accepted in 1998 to continue doing business as a 501(c) 3 non-profit.

Learn to ask very direct questions of how the animals came to be at this particular sanctuary and under what circumstances, i.e. almost half of the exotic animals at Prairie Wind Animal Refuge were actually born there and not rescued from some horrible situation like some would like you to believe. Babies are so cute and approachable and they bring in more donations than the old and sick animals that really need care. Babies are also much more photogenic. Why does an animal sanctuary facing foreclosure acquire five new baby black bear cubs? That situation could NOT be considered an actual rescue, as printed incorrectly in a local newspaper article. Prairie Wind Animal Refuge’s debt-to-animal-care ratio is very high and that is why the actual dollars needed is overstated for the number and kind of animals in its care, based on the national average. All these things are slight distortions of a true story but just enough to make you feel more passionate about giving or helping. All these facts are readily available as public record in the state of Colorado and most can be obtained through a simple phone call to the proper agencies.

Why, you ask, would I say all this? Well, in HONOR of the passion of the lady who wrote the e-mail with the best intentions of helping someone care for some wonderful animals but unfortunately, I can only assume, was not given all the facts.

My job is to investigate non-profits without malicious intent or prejudice, mainly for, but not limited to, the preservation of exotic and non-exotic species of wildlife in captivity and education of the public for public and private foundations for the purpose in assisting in the funding of those non-profits. These particular foundations provide about 75 million dollars annually to accredited and non-accredited wildlife refuges, sanctuaries, rehabilitation centers, and rescue operations. Funding is the most important part of these non-profits because without it their operations are non-existent and the management of those funds is their key to pursuing their mission statement. If a non-profit’s mission statement and philosophical ideals continually and drastically change over a period of 16 years, how does one know exactly what one is supporting with one’s donations (breeding, exhibiting, rescuing, or personal lifestyle)?

Please choose your causes wisely because, in the end, it’s really for the animals and the more you can do for more of them, the better off they will all be.

[Whirling Dervish]

Are there any links to proof that you can provide? I'd be interested in seeing them--these are very serious claims and I do hope you're ready to prove them.

I am also forwarding this post to Ms. Brush--she has invited you to call her, and her number is on the original post. Anyone who wishes, of course, can call her and talk about this. She is quite ready.

In fact, I have to wonder why you have not called her already.

Se is a very nice, kind person and will not be angry for your adversarial postition. But be assured that we will be addressing everything you have said, and publicly, and will be exposing what we can.

So stay tuned, Cyberfolks--we will be right back with, "Jungle at Home."

[vervilledeb1]

Are there any links to proof that you can provide? I'd be interested in seeing them--these are very serious claims and I do hope you're ready to prove them.

I am also forwarding this post to Ms. Brush--she has invited you to call her, and her number is on the original post. Anyone who wishes, of course, can call her and talk about this. She is quite ready.

In fact, I have to wonder why you have not called her already.

Se is a very nice, kind person and will not be angry for your adversarial postition. But be assured that we will be addressing everything you have said, and publicly, and will be exposing what we can.

So stay tuned, Cyberfolks--we will be right back with, "Jungle at Home."

Whirling, please keep us posted on the outcome of this. I'm very interested to see if this call ever gets made.

[Whirling Dervish]

So am I--I called Deb this evening and she is looking forward to it, so I do hope it happens. She and I had a very interesting discussion concerning the lack of anything even resembling proof, who the poster works for, etc.

I hope the poster returns to read the replies, though--sometimes people post and never return; in essence lighting fires and running away while they burn.

[Whirling Dervish]

Small update:

Interesting that this article came out today:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-BRF-Animal-Sanctuary.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

This is the one in the Denver Post Cindy is referring to from a week before:
http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_4144601

[Cindyfortheanimals]

I’m very surprised at this response mainly because nothing in what I wrote in my post was an accusation of any kind or a fabrication of the facts nor did I state that anyone should “not” donate money to there particular cause or organization. My post was to merely stimulate a thought process that it is not considered bad business to have all the facts about any non-profit that one considers investing their money in or promoting the investment of others.

I very much understand the passion for a cause and know what it is like when someone tells you that you better get all the facts first before standing on your soap box so to speak. I love and honor as I stated people that have this passion and drive for animals. As an independent contractor collecting public information on non-profit organizations I must remain impartial and contacting an individual connected with a specific non-profit to engage in any conversation other than the facts as they are would be very unprofessional.

In my prior post I was very specific that all the information that I reported within my post was in the public domain and with little to no effort can be substantiated and if I were a corporate sponsor being invited to invest large sums of money you can bet I will be doing the research that I have tried to stimulate here. Her adversarial conversation will certainly be with them and anyone else that takes the time to do the research and ask the questions that I just recommended they ask. For those of you that just can’t quite figure out where to go for information you can start with the following agencies and there are many other places on the internet you can go to find out information concerning standards for non-profit wildlife sanctuaries across the US.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/) Federal agency (Rules governing licensed facilities open to
the public and specific information on each facility.)
http://wildlife.state.co.us/ (http://wildlife.state.co.us/) State agency…this one is for Colorado… you can substitute
for your particular state. (Rules governing licensed facilities
in CO and specific information on each facility.)
http://www.irs.gov/ (http://www.irs.gov/) Federal agency (you can get specific information
governing rules for 501(c) 3 non-profits)

Any and all non-profit wildlife Refuges/Sanctuaries must report any addition or deaths to there animal population within 10 days to their particular licensing agency. This information for additions includes where they came from and under what conditions, and for deaths cause if possible. Each annual-renewal of a particular license includes a list of the animals at the facility which indicates the species, age, sex, year of birth, tag number, and place of birth.

If anyone wishes to challenge my research, please by all means do so and I will correct any information that is not valid, or contains erroneous information publicly here and anywhere else they want. Do the research, do the interviews, validate your information and please in a professional manner with the corrected information inform me and I will make the corrections to anything I have said up to this point in my posts.

Thank you

[Whirling Dervish]

Indirect accusations (anyone who reads these would suspect Prairie Wind of wrongdoing of some kind):

"It’s like sending money to your favorite charity only to find that less than 10% of what you sent actually goes for what you thought it did."

"Yes, there are hundreds of thousands of animals of all kinds that are abused, neglected, abandoned, mistreated, bought and sold all over the US at the present time by thousands of unscrupulous people and organizations that prey on the hearts and souls of individuals like yourself to keep them in business."

Direct accusations:

"...i.e. almost half of the exotic animals at Prairie Wind Animal Refuge were actually born there and not rescued from some horrible situation like some would like you to believe. Babies are so cute and approachable and they bring in more donations than the old and sick animals that really need care."

"Why does an animal sanctuary facing foreclosure acquire five new baby black bear cubs? That situation could NOT be considered an actual rescue, as printed incorrectly in a local newspaper article."

Accusation of possible fraud:
"Prairie Wind Animal Refuge’s debt-to-animal-care ratio is very high and that is why the actual dollars needed is overstated for the number and kind of animals in its care, based on the national average."

Accusation of lying:
"All these things are slight distortions of a true story but just enough to make you feel more passionate about giving or helping."

Accusations of ignorance:
"Why, you ask, would I say all this? Well, in HONOR of the passion of the lady who wrote the e-mail with the best intentions of helping someone care for some wonderful animals but unfortunately, I can only assume, was not given all the facts."

Incidentally, she is preparing a response.

"My job is to investigate non-profits without malicious intent or prejudice, mainly for, but not limited to, the preservation of exotic and non-exotic species of wildlife in captivity and education of the public for public and private foundations for the purpose in assisting in the funding of those non-profits."

Then why have you not worked directly with Prairie Wind or shut them down? If they are as bad as you suggest, perhaps you should have the authorities investigate. To date I have not heard one peep about an investigation. Have you called Deb yet?

Thanks for the links. I sent them to Deb so she can prepare her response better.

If you are an invesitgator, perhaps you should tell everyone who you are, as well.

[Whirling Dervish]

I’m very surprised at this response mainly because nothing in what I wrote in my post was an accusation of any kind or a fabrication of the facts nor did I state that anyone should “not” donate money to there particular cause or organization. My post was to merely stimulate a thought process that it is not considered bad business to have all the facts about any non-profit that one considers investing their money in or promoting the investment of others.

I very much understand the passion for a cause and know what it is like when someone tells you that you better get all the facts first before standing on your soap box so to speak. I love and honor as I stated people that have this passion and drive for animals. As an independent contractor collecting public information on non-profit organizations I must remain impartial and contacting an individual connected with a specific non-profit to engage in any conversation other than the facts as they are would be very unprofessional.

In my prior post I was very specific that all the information that I reported within my post was in the public domain and with little to no effort can be substantiated and if I were a corporate sponsor being invited to invest large sums of money you can bet I will be doing the research that I have tried to stimulate here. Her adversarial conversation will certainly be with them and anyone else that takes the time to do the research and ask the questions that I just recommended they ask. For those of you that just can’t quite figure out where to go for information you can start with the following agencies and there are many other places on the internet you can go to find out information concerning standards for non-profit wildlife sanctuaries across the US.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ (http://www.aphis.usda.gov/) Federal agency (Rules governing licensed facilities open to
the public and specific information on each facility.)
http://wildlife.state.co.us/ (http://wildlife.state.co.us/) State agency…this one is for Colorado… you can substitute
for your particular state. (Rules governing licensed facilities
in CO and specific information on each facility.)
http://www.irs.gov/ (http://www.irs.gov/) Federal agency (you can get specific information
governing rules for 501(c) 3 non-profits)

Any and all non-profit wildlife Refuges/Sanctuaries must report any addition or deaths to there animal population within 10 days to their particular licensing agency. This information for additions includes where they came from and under what conditions, and for deaths cause if possible. Each annual-renewal of a particular license includes a list of the animals at the facility which indicates the species, age, sex, year of birth, tag number, and place of birth.

If anyone wishes to challenge my research, please by all means do so and I will correct any information that is not valid, or contains erroneous information publicly here and anywhere else they want. Do the research, do the interviews, validate your information and please in a professional manner with the corrected information inform me and I will make the corrections to anything I have said up to this point in my posts.

Thank you

You don't need to tell people not to donate money--you suggested enough reasons for them not to do so by drawing parallels to non-rpofit scams of the past without even mentioning the exact scam. I certainly hope you don't attack the other group that was mentioned in the NY Times article--they work hard for their animals, too. If you have something to say about them, I would be happy to defend them, as well. I should call them today to let them know what has been happening on this board.

But back to us:

Question: Did Prairie Wind overestimate or misuse 90 percent of the donations? If not, why do you refer to this?

Standing on a soap box? You are standing on the one opposite Prarie Wind. You claim to be impartial but I see nothing impartial in your original post--it's full of suggestivity, some of it I would call subliminal.

For reference, go to http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/consciousness-levels-of and read "Automatic and Controlled Processing." Folks, you owe it to yourselves on many levels to know what your brain can do to you in instances like this. Then reread both of our original posts and you be the jury.

And what company wouldn't already do research on a non-profit if they're writing big checks? That's a no-brainer. You're preaching to the choir if that's all you're warning about. So I am suspect of that ploy.

Thanks for the links, but I was asking for proof that baby animals were born at Prairie Wind (of course, other than the females that were taken in and gave birth there). I asked for evidence of misusing funds, since you mentioned that in a very visible part of your article. I Wanted evidence of the abuse you suggested was associated with Prairie Wind (otherwise why would you mention it?), and why the five new cubs wasn't a rescue, since the Post printed it "incorrectly."

I would like evidence that the truth was distorted, even if slightly, since you brought it up in your original post.

So here I think we had a misunderstanding--I wasn't asking for links to the regulatory agencies, I was looking for links to real, actual proof of your accusations (which I covered in the post before).

I don't know if you're from Missouri or not, but show me anyway. You've thrown a huge monkey wrench into a cause, so do the readers--and the animals--the courtesy of taking off the veil. Or, if you're an investigator with all this information, shut Prairie Wind down.

And no one can challenge your research yet--you didn't present it, unless there is someplace in those links I can find direct mention of Prairie Wind. So far you have only made suggestive commentary (replete with "ideas" and links to regulations, all which would serve to taint an opinion before anyone even opened the links themselves--see above reference to subliminal suggestion).

This is how some people operate, though. They prey on the fears of others to ruin a cause for someone they take issue with in some way. Their mask is rules and regulations, innuendo, distraction (i.e., links that offered no proof), and claims of their own immaculate nature compared to the target's. And don't take offsense to this: if your comments in your first post weren't accusations, neither is this.

I think in your own mind you also have the animals' best interest at heart, and I love you for that, but you can't accomplish anything by throwing innuendo and lighting fire to it. Show us the proof.

This is America and we're innocent until proven guilty. I've asked to you prove it. If there isn't any, there is no reason for your original post, it's tone, or it's suggestions.

[NicoMoon]

Cindy,

Speaking of checking our facts:

As an independent contractor collecting public information on non-profit organizations

What is that meant to mean? With whom do you independently contract? Anyone who ever used google to find the Red Cross website could just as easily define themselves as such, as well.

While I do agree with you that we need to be careful about the information we invest in, I also agree with WD that yours seems far more spurious than does the appeal for funds for Prairie Wind.

Is this possibly a case of over-zealousness on your part, or is there some other agenda at work here? I've looked and have been able to come up with no information that supports your "suggestion" that Prairie Wind is a questionable organization, or your assertion that they breed animal cubs to provide entertainment factor to visitors and potential donators.

[Cindyfortheanimals]

What a passionate group of people you are that’s for sure. Please put as much energy into your discover as you have in criticizing my posts. Obviously you are drawing conclusions that are not there. First off there is no official (legal) investigation going on that I know of directed at Prairie Wind Animal Refuge and I know of nothing they have done wrong to warrant such a thing. I am hired by (Foundations) that give grants to non-profits of all types, to find out if a particular non-profit meets the guidelines of the foundation. If a non-profit organization does not meet the guidelines of any given foundation it does not mean the non-profit is run improperly it just means they don’t qualify for that particular foundations grant approval process.

Second the state of Colorado has no set legal parameters as many other states do of how much of a donated dollar to a non-profit should be spent on the actual cause they are collecting money for. So if the Red Cross spends 90% of what it collects in donations on administrative costs it is not breaking the law in Colorado, but it does give you an idea on where it spends its money. Now before you draw some parallel accusation I have no idea what the % is for the Red Cross this is merely an example as it was in my post. If this group of passionate people are not interested in how Prairie Winds Animal Refuge spends the donations it brings in that is and always will be fine with me and in accordance with Colorado law I have not seen anything that Prairie Wind is doing wrong with it donations.

Third it is not my place to work directly with any non-profit to improve the management of, or in the case of wildlife sanctuaries, care of the animals at is facility. It is also not my job to police any given wildlife sanctuary in the US as to the nature of its care for its animals that is the sol propose of the regulatory agency governing it, and yes if I have any direct contact with an individual sanctuary and find abuse I immediately report it to the proper agency. There are many avenues for non-profits to get assistance including people such as yourselves. There has been a 20% increase in the number of foundations and the amount of money given out in the form of grants but many of the smaller wildlife sanctuaries (under 200 animals) have not been able to qualify for one reason or another. Colorado has especially been hard hit and the top 3 exotic animals sanctuaries are currently in danger.

Next I will address the following;

FACT: Prior to Prairie Wind Animals Refuge loosing its license as an exhibitor and being open to the public and according to its current license as I pointed out in my last post, public records indicate that at least 11 of the exotic animals that are currently in its care were born at its facility. Its current license prohibits it from breeding animals and requires them to file a non-reproductive program report. Again nothing wrong with this if it is within your mission statement. The history of a non-profit is just as important as its current day operations.

FACT: Had you obtained the name of the Idaho Refuge (again public information) where they obtained the five new baby bears and talked to the Idaho Refuge as I have, I’m quite sure they would have taken offense to be referred to as a “shuttering animal park” in Idaho as printed in the paper. First off, they are a very well-run wildlife park and zoo and their main focus is on bears. The have over 60 bears in what is called a drive-through park for the public and an actual zoo for both adults and children. They have a breeding program for bears and supply bear cubs for other sanctuaries and zoos. They are an accredited sanctuary and are in good standing in the sate of Idaho. Prairie Wind Animal Refuge initially contacted them to actually purchase one of the cubs and, in the end, was given all five cubs. These cubs were in no danger and the park had more than enough room to keep them or find an adequate home for them. This was not a rescue of abused bear cubs in need of a home. (Remember bears are not considered endangered and there are believe it or not legally licensed and accredited non-profit sanctuaries that breed bears to be killed and their gall bladders sold, hence my comment of unscrupulous organizations.)

FACT: Prairie Wind Animals Refuge debt ratio is very high as it is with many other non-profit wildlife sanctuaries across the US. Although they are higher than the national average this could be due to many different factors from management, to geographical location, funding availability, and market trends for food sources. To help find out just why, you would have to compare it with the costs of the others in the area keeping in mind the mix of the animals in their care. I think this would be a good exercise for someone and give them a much better idea of just what it cost to care for animals such as these. There are many other sources of donation such as what is considered “donation in kind” such as food sources for the animals some sanctuaries take much better advantage of this kind of donation than other.

Since the forgone conclusion from this passionate group is that my information has been very disruptive at best I will reframe from any further discussions or posts. If armed with this information this group wishes to continue with its un-relenting focus and drive to collect fund to help keep this particular sanctuary alive then more power to you and I mean that from the bottom of my heart. All these animals need our help all of them even the 1 million plus dogs and cats that are euthanized each year. Remember its not just that majestic tiger or lion behind bars that needs our help, don’t just define your passion for saving animals to them. Wouldn’t it be spectacular if this group in all it glory were able to save all 3 of the exotic animals sanctuaries in Colorado now wouldn’t that be something.

[Whirling Dervish]

I am criticising your logic and methods, which seemed (by the way it was written) designed hurt PW from the beginning. There is nothing wrong with putting energy into criticism of these methods, just as there is nothing wrong with warning people to check their facts. This is the nature of healthy dialectic and discovery, but you haven't told us where to find this stuff yet, only that it's fact and you read it. This way we only know what you say and not anything documented, so please tell us where to go! I promise you I will go there and read it.

"First off there is no official (legal) investigation going on that I know of directed at Prairie Wind Animal Refuge and I know of nothing they have done wrong to warrant such a thing."

Thank you.

"If a non-profit organization does not meet the guidelines of any given foundation it does not mean the non-profit is run improperly it just means they don’t qualify for that particular foundations grant approval process."

I'm sure the foundations who would give PW money know this. No other claim was made or insinuated by me. But thank you for reminding us.

"If this group of passionate people are not interested in how Prairie Winds Animal Refuge spends the donations it brings in that is and always will be fine with me and in accordance with Colorado law I have not seen anything that Prairie Wind is doing wrong with it donations."

Again, thank you. I'm sure people are interested, but we still, as yet, do not know where to go for the information specifically on Prairie wind. Will you please tell us?

"There are many avenues for non-profits to get assistance including people such as yourselves. There has been a 20% increase in the number of foundations and the amount of money given out in the form of grants but many of the smaller wildlife sanctuaries (under 200 animals) have not been able to qualify for one reason or another. Colorado has especially been hard hit and the top 3 exotic animals sanctuaries are currently in danger."

Yes, I believe there are articles stating that. Wasn't that in the Post article? I'd have to reread it but I think so. Thank you once again for your help.

"FACT: Prior to Prairie Wind Animals Refuge loosing its license as an exhibitor and being open to the public and according to its current license as I pointed out in my last post, public records indicate that at least 11 of the exotic animals that are currently in its care were born at its facility. Its current license prohibits it from breeding animals and requires them to file a non-reproductive program report. Again nothing wrong with this if it is within your mission statement. The history of a non-profit is just as important as its current day operations."

Debbie will be addressing this, but I understand there were pregnant females who gave birth while under PW's care, but were pregnant when they got there and absolutely no breeding took place. Which public records say that 11 animals were bred there? I live in Denver and have time to check, so I'll report to the group.

"FACT: Had you obtained the name of the Idaho Refuge (again public information) where they obtained the five new baby bears and talked to the Idaho Refuge as I have, I’m quite sure they would have taken offense to be referred to as a “shuttering animal park” in Idaho as printed in the paper."

Did Prairie Wind write the article? I will definitely call the Idaho Refuge.

"There are many other sources of donation such as what is considered “donation in kind” such as food sources for the animals some sanctuaries take much better advantage of this kind of donation than other."

I have been looking for such other avenues, like slaughter houses and meat lockers where people throw out old game kills. I also understand some county departments will let sanctuaries take road kill. There certainly is some of that in Colorado.

"Wouldn’t it be spectacular if this group in all it glory were able to save all 3 of the exotic animals sanctuaries in Colorado now wouldn’t that be something."

Yes it would, but why you say all it's glory I don't know. I believe I mentioned in another post that I would help them too if they would but post here or reach out in some way like Deb has. I didn't know until yesterday. Now that I do I will call them. If they would work together perhaps they could be more of a force than just 3 separate santuaries.

Even though you said you won't be posting anymore (which is a shame--it's through debate with evidence and logical process that we find truth), I believe the readers would like the facts addressed and I'm sure Debbie will do so. Thank you for these discussions, and for not walking away from debate.

Actually you will find a lot of debate going on in this forum and may find another place to post. Please do and stick around.

If you could post one more time and provide the phone numbers and/or offices where we would research these, I would appreciate it. It's one thing to say, "This is a fact, I read it," and quite another to say, "this is where I read it--go read it for yourself." There is a veritable quagmire of public record out there. If you want to help, then please tell us where to find the information. It's the only favor I would ask of you.

[NicoMoon]

Cindy,

You're extremely condescending, and your atttitude makes no sense. On one hand you're lecturing us on the necessity to check our sources and facts, and then having a knicker wad when we apply the same scrutiny to your posts here.

It seems that what's bothering you is that not only do we choose our causes wisely, but that we do the same with the posts of strangers making claims over the internet.

You've come here out of the blue making vague assertions and claims, and offering yourself up as some kind of authority. Yet when asked, you can't come up with the name of any of these foundations which according to you hire folks who can't spell common words or remain objective to do their research for them by contract. For some reason Cindy, I'm not convinced.

At this point it remains extremely unclear as to why you took it upon yourself to add your inflammatory but insubstantial posts which are clearly geared toward discouraging contributions to the Prairie Wind Refuge.

Rather than "reframe" from posting, we all might be better served if you reframed your comments in some form that might make them useful, interesting, or welcomed. As it stands, all we have is a lot of arrogance from you, and not even to any discernable end.

How do you suspect that your approach might serve the cause of animals, by the way?

[Cindyfortheanimals]

Well sorry folks guess you’re on your own the Grand Poohbah has spoken, and once to often for me. Sorry Whirling Dervish would have posted additional info but at this point will not engage with the likes of such a person. Perhaps the Grand Poohbah can fill you in and do it in a much more eloquent fashion.

Good luck to all of you and I hope for the sake of the animals it all works out ok….

[LightHeart]

Well sorry folks guess you’re on your own the Grand Poohbah has spoken, and once to often for me. Sorry Whirling Dervish would have posted additional info but at this point will not engage with the likes of such a person. Perhaps the Grand Poohbah can fill you in and do it in a much more eloquent fashion.

Good luck to all of you and I hope for the sake of the animals it all works out ok….

Ok this post really made me chuckle. oh hell I was laughing out loud. The Grand Poohbah is the most eloquent person I have ever met, but thats besides the point. from what I read she asked some simple questions, you couldn't answer.So you like many others will throw the blame where it shouldn't be. *Sigh*, just another day.

I did love this though, knicker wad.:lol: My hubby said that to me 26 years ago and I was like WTF, he was stationed in scotland for a few years, I guess he picked up the lingo. It still cracks me up.

[Whirling Dervish]

from what I read she asked some simple questions, you couldn't answer.So you like many others will throw the blame where it shouldn't be. *Sigh*, just another day.

Indeed.

I'm disappointed in how quickly Cindy took the easy out. I was kind of wondering if that would happen. This makes me suspect that she had no info to give.

Still hasn't called Debbie from what I understand. And Debbie tried her Yahoo IM that she posted and it doesn't work.

[NicoMoon]

Thanks for the flattering words, LightHeart! If I were modest you'd make me blush! :dork:

I'm used to this strategy, and that's all it is. I'm sure I was sharp with Cindy, but I have little patience with this type of poster. After awhile you can see them coming from a mile away.

Easy formula: A. "I'm the expert, here's the truth" B. "Could you provide some proof or evidence?" A. "You're an ungrateful abuser, I have to leave".

We can stretch these scenarios out, but let's face it, anyone who shows up with the attitude that they must be believed and agreed with because they say so is a pretty bad bet for a productive or even respectful discussion.



I did love this though, knicker wad.:lol: My hubby said that to me 26 years ago and I was like WTF, he was stationed in scotland for a few years, I guess he picked up the lingo. It still cracks me up.

Yes, I guess I did pick up the knickers from my Brit associations.:) I am noticing more crossover slang these days though. That would be a fun post for another thread! :pals:

[NicoMoon]

Indeed.

I'm disappointed in how quickly Cindy took the easy out. I was kind of wondering if that would happen. This makes me suspect that she had no info to give.

Still hasn't called Debbie from what I understand. And Debbie tried her Yahoo IM that she posted and it doesn't work.

Yes, and thanks for taking the time to outline your concerns to Cindy, WD. I appreciate your patience. If you have any extra, could I borrow a little? :D

No matter how often this happens, I too am always disappointed. I don't know how our society will continue to flourish unless we learn how to communicate equitably and functionally. I'm aware that for some that means never asking questions, going with the flow, and avoiding confrontation, but sadly that's exactly why some get used to interacting as Cindy does. It is nothing but an entitled demand for agreement by a wholly disrespectful opportunist.

Cindy's posts remind me of a cult leader playing the smoke and mirrors, "question authority, but not my authority" game. And, I'm still wondering where she came from and why! I certainly don't buy the "contract investigator" story.

Oh well, another day, another hit and run hissy fit!! :rolleyes:

[Whirling Dervish]

Lol, Nico!

I have some extra patience, so I'll send it on. Mine comes from having some of the funniest friends in the US. What I need in return is a couple hours' sleep, so please send same day air, kthx. Haha! :-)

I got a charge out of your brit-slang, too. I've caught myself a couple times, too. I'll see if I can break a couple minutes free today to post on the Britslang board if someone starts it. I can think well enough to get a cup of coffee this morning and that's it.

[NicoMoon]

Lol, Nico!

I have some extra patience, so I'll send it on. Mine comes from having some of the funniest friends in the US. What I need in return is a couple hours' sleep, so please send same day air, kthx. Haha! :-)

I got a charge out of your brit-slang, too. I've caught myself a couple times, too. I'll see if I can break a couple minutes free today to post on the Britslang board if someone starts it. I can think well enough to get a cup of coffee this morning and that's it.

Ahhh...Ok, I'll trade you some patience for some coffee. Sleep is in short supply in these parts too, so we'll just have to share that pain! :lol:

I'll bring the coffee pot over to the Brit Slang thread. I brew it hot and strong, and I have a super fast machine, so have your heart meds ready :eek: !

[Whirling Dervish]

Ahhh...Ok, I'll trade you some patience for some coffee. Sleep is in short supply in these parts too, so we'll just have to share that pain! :lol:

I'll bring the coffee pot over to the Brit Slang thread. I brew it hot and strong, and I have a super fast machine, so have your heart meds ready :eek: !

Ooooo, coffee!

I read where people who drink moderate amounts (compared to heavy drinkers) had more caffeine related heart trouble. I think it was a Yahoo headline, and I don't know if I understood it right--been running all day and night the last few weeks so I may have misinterpreted.

But anyway, I increased my dose yesterday to help my heart. :woohoo:

But that's another post, too, lol!

[NicoMoon]

But anyway, I increased my dose yesterday to help my heart. :woohoo:

LOL..and that makes you a woman after my own! When in doubt, indulge! :rotate:


But that's another post, too, lol!

Definitely! There is so much contradictory information about coffee and caffeine that I figure that in this case we can choose to perceive our own reality! Here's mine!! http://www.livewire.fm/Nico/photos/00000067_photo.gif

[Whirling Dervish]

Nice!!!!

[BigCatLover]

Cindy, thank you for your clarifications on the issues and your caveats to folks to watch their wallets. Those are important warnings for all of us, all of the time. Your input I'm sure helped someone; all spokes of the wheel are needed for balance of the machine. I also appreciate you honoring my passion--without passion life has little meaning.

I am curious if you would be so kind as to direct me to the guidelines of the various Foundations as relates to the grants available. If, hypothetically, I was interested in getting a grant, where would I look to see if my non-profit qualifies? Or where would I find a copy of the guildelines of each foundation so I may strive to qualify.

I agree that there are MANY deserving causes. There are SO many - just in the realm of animals in addition to the thousands of wildlife parks and sanctuaries; Mustang roundups, experimentation on various species, farm animal abuse, circus animal abuse, domestic neglect, abuse and overpopulation, etc., etc., etc....that it is overwhelming. I support many of these causes and have all my life.

I have been volunteering at PWAR since March, and know that the founder considers safety and comfort of animals as well as people of prime importance. He did not lose his exhibitor's license. He decided not to renew it. It was only suspended, and for a short time due to human error. Denver Post Archives 5-7/2000.

When I went to Prairie Wind, I saw the faces of the deserving live and in front of me. People have told me I can't save the world. They are right, but I CAN make a difference in my own backyard and with my own two hands. I also can't change the past, and rather than dig through PWAR's history (which amounts to sorting fly scat from the pepper) I am focusing on the animals that are there today. All of us are proud to be part of it. We truly care for these animals and hold them in our hearts wuth the greatest esteem, respect and awe.

I have never heard of a state relocation program, and could find no reference to one on the internet. Maybe you could provide the facts on this, too, such as where to check out the program. PWAR has placed many nationwide calls to see if there is space for the animals elsewhere. I wonder if the other troubled Colorado facilities are doing the same thing?

Also, Prairie Wind has a keen dislike for any organization that breeds animals for photographic or monetary purposes. The belief is that animals that have the unfortunate reality of being "in the system" should be able to live their lives out in relative peace where they are subject to a minimum number of people. 7 years ago, a spay and neuter program was instituted at PWAR for that very reason. That is another reason we are "only" a sanctuary, because we can not show new births. We did take in pregnant females in the past....those babies are very grown at this point.

The "almost half" number that you refer to about critters born at PWAR is high. There are 44 animals currently there and 6 were born at PWAR.

I am sure there are many issues I have left unsaid - like how over 16 years a mentality/mission statement changes. Organizations--and yes, refuges--have experiences and experiences bring change. Crap happens and with it, thinking and action changes--for the better usually.

And no, I have not previewed PWAR's books, although they are open for me to do so. Frankly, I see what I see there. There is no high flaluttin' lifestyle going on, and I invite you to meet with me some time as a visitor to PWAR. I can prove my claim in person and in fact. So come with me and be shown. Whirling Dervish has also agreed to join us.


Respectfully,

Debbie Brush

[Cindyfortheanimals]

Debbie
I have little or no use for this forum and outside of you only one other person showed any interest in what I was trying to get across. I have no personal interest in, stake in, or axe to grind about Prairie Wind Animals Refuge and had little knowledge of its existence until last year when I was asked to do some research on it because of an application to one of my clients for a grant. Although English is my 3rd language I do have a great editor for the reports I write from the research I gather. It is important to me to remain neutral about the research I do on any given non-profit which excludes me from getting personally involved with anyone directly related to any specific non-profit, which is a shame because there are some wonderful people out there and each specific organization has its own story to tell about the work it is doing.

It would improper and unethical for me to assist you in the questions you have asked and for that I am sorry. And now in light of the small world syndrome I will have to reframe from talking about this at all. I just found out today in a meeting while going over some grant approvals that I know someone that not only knows you personally but also has very imitate knowledge of Prairie Wind, a very awkward position to say the lease. The only words that were spoken about this situation is that this person saw the newspaper article about Prairie Wind with your name in it and seemed very concerned about you. This person seemed to have a great deal of respect for you and hoped you understood all the fact before jumping in with both feet. They seem to feel your passion for the animals will cloud your judgment.

That is all that was said and I excused myself and did not mention to anyone in the room that this forum had been going on. I stand by my facts and the report I filled to my client earlier this year. I regret this unfortunate set of circumstances and apologize for any disruption it may have caused.

I wish you and the animals all the luck in the world.

Cindy

[Whirling Dervish]

I just found out today in a meeting while going over some grant approvals that I know someone that not only knows you personally but also has very imitate knowledge of Prairie Wind, a very awkward position to say the lease.

Thank you. We suspected something like this all along, although we were not sure of the exact circumstances. Debbie said this to me as soon as she read your first post.

Indeed, folks, there is much more to this situation than meets the eye, just as Cindy said from the get go.

[Whirling Dervish]

The only words that were spoken about this situation is that this person saw the newspaper article about Prairie Wind with your name in it and seemed very concerned about you. This person seemed to have a great deal of respect for you and hoped you understood all the fact before jumping in with both feet. They seem to feel your passion for the animals will cloud your judgment.

That is all that was said and I excused myself and did not mention to anyone in the room that this forum had been going on
So this person just started spewing about Prairie Wind today at random?

Um.....

[Cindyfortheanimals]

It figures, someone would try to do a hatchet job on some very sincere words I wrote to Debbie. The classic approach for some very in-secure people but very much what I expected from this forum.

To clarify Debbie, (and I don’t really give a **** what the rest of you think) I had never spoken to this person before and today was the first time I had ever meet this person. Because of the type of work we all do, of course many of the recent events that have taken place in the Colorado region were being discussed from the death of Karen Sculac the own of Big Cats of Serenity Springs this past weekend to Pat Craig’s report of closing down Rocky Mountain Wildlife Center to The newspaper article about Prairie Wind.

Obviously there is a lot of skepticism about the things I have written which is just fine with me I have never shied away from a healthy debate only stupid people. I’m sorry to report that this forum is full of arm chair quarterbacks and literary critics and not a single one of them have offered up any concrete information to debate, except a bunch of gibberish, pounding themselves on the chest, tell everyone there is more to this than meet the eye. . So how about some of you spouting out some of your qualification about non-profit wildlife refuges and sanctuaries or even non-profits in general or are you just people that jump on the band wagon as it goes by and when someone stops the wagon you just jump off and beat the **** out of them for stopping the wagon no matter the reason.

And for the Ass that claimed I called myself an expert which I didn’t I’m just someone that has taken the time to do the research into organizations that clam to be advocates for the welfare and care of animals of all kinds in the US when I am hired to do so. I have also done the same research on 7 other wildlife refuges / sanctuaries with in the State of Colorado not to mention hundred of other across the US.

So either this group of people is an encyclopedia of knowledge on non-profit animal sanctuaries or you’re just a group of followers of someone else’s ideals and thoughts and have no hopes of actually being someone with independent thought.

Sorry Debbie Just had to get that out of my system. Just wanted you to know I would never convey someone else’s message no matter how good or bad it may be. My words to you were very sincere and from the heart.

Thanks
Cindy

[Whirling Dervish]

I’m sorry to report that this forum is full of arm chair quarterbacks and literary critics and not a single one of them have offered up any concrete information to debate, except a bunch of gibberish, pounding themselves on the chest, tell everyone there is more to this than meet the eye. . So how about some of you spouting out some of your qualification about non-profit wildlife refuges and sanctuaries or even non-profits in general or are you just people that jump on the band wagon as it goes by and when someone stops the wagon you just jump off and beat the **** out of them for stopping the wagon no matter the reason.


You were the one who introduced yourself to the group with a file folder full of nothing but innnuendo. It was us who asked YOU for concrete information and YOU who didn't have it. We also asked who YOU were as such an expert and YOU won't tell us. And YOU got offended, especially when we persisted and did not follow you blindly like subjects behind a jealous god. You can't expect to reverse this and project your tactics onto us. We are innocent of this charge in all regards.

And, although I am academically trained and mentally fit to be a literary critic, I did no such thing.

I made no such claim to special knowledge (no one did), only pointed out fallacies of logic, method, and tone, and asked you to substantiate yourself as much as you asked us to substantiate the situation with PWAR. And you continue to suggest that I am a moron for not believing what you say and saying that I spout gibberish.

Where was the gibberish? I saw perfectly good and logical English. You are the only one who doesn't understand--what does that mean?

And no one beat the *** out of you, we just asked--over and over and over--for something concrete. When we didn't get it, I personally became very suspicious of everything about you.

You're starting to remind me of a guy up at the University of Colorado who sits under the bridge at College Hill now and then and yells that the world is going to end and it's all China's fault. When people don't believe him he calls them stupid and swears at them.

BTW, you didn't stop the wagon, you just yelled at it as it went by from your own wagon going the other way. We stayed in ours because it had all its wheels.

Now for the last time, if you want people to believe you and give you the worship you seem to crave, here is what you have to do: Give. Us. Some. Concrete. Proof. Evidence. Links. With. Names. And. References. Like Debbie did when she referenced a Denver Post article.

It would also help to stop treating us like we're idiots for not believing everything you say just because you say it--if we did that our heads would be spinning from following every silly claim that blew past us.

And tell us who you are if you have the nerve. Debbie did, and gave me permission to post her phone number. You didn't call it. Your own IM doesn't work. Instead you relied on and posted the essence of the blabber of someone else who claims to know her and seems to have a condescending attitude toward her stability.

Sorry, it takes a bigger hammer than you've got right now to make our knees jerk.

[Cindyfortheanimals]

Stop treating you like idiots…why because you think you have asked all these question that I have not answered….my gosh people just where are the brain of this outfit…..

I don’t need or care for your praise or worship or even if you believe me or not your questions of me are like asking Debbie for here customer list at her job. I’m sorry I’m not going to give you that information nor am I going to tell you just how I go about my research this is how I make my living and a very nice one at that. I have given you as much information about me as anyone of you have to me about who the hell all of you are. And yes my yahoo link works quit well and always has including the IM feature where I get IM’s all the time, which makes me wonder if anyone knows how to us it.
Perhaps you need a re-read of my post…I never asked anyone to blindly trust a single piece of information I said, I just said it might be a good idea for everyone to do a little research of their own something you people don’t seem to be capable of. This entire conversation was suppose to be about animals and you have to turn it into a competition of wits of what someone writes all I tried to do was stimulate some thought that it might be a good idea for all of you to do a little research on you own with out giving away the farm so to speak on my end instead of figuring that out all you people have done was attack, attack, this was about animals and people doing a little homework and obviously you don’t seem to get that or care about either. If you wish to pay for the information like all my clients fine I will gladly provide you with a detailed report of my findings with all the backup you wish to have, including my name, my company, and all my credentials including a list or referrals but I don’t think you fit my customer profile. And how many times do you have to be reminded that it would be very inappropriate to call Debbie and this continued crap is something I am now ending, this is very unprofessional of me to get draw into this by a bunch of people that really have no idea….you are already blindly following someone and all I tried to do was make people wake up and do a little work on their own…. Again you would rather make the boat rocker prove the path to take than make the decisions on your own through you own work…. So how would you like to be treated…. So far you have not proved you have any directions of your own…. Perhaps I should only have dealt with Debbie in the first place so far she seems to be the only one with her own direction and the person I meet today sure did have a great amount of respect for her….

That’s its I’m done

[NicoMoon]

Perhaps I should only have dealt with Debbie in the first place so far she seems to be the only one with her own direction and the person I meet today sure did have a great amount of respect for her….

That’s its I’m done

So we keep hearing. I suppose that since we now have your claim to a mutual acquaintance with Debby, we might find a clue as to who you actually are, and what your actual agenda is.

I think your biggest problem here is that we're not idiots. Not that it would take a genius to figure out that you're not playing straight with us. Clearly you are not who you say you are, but you sure do have a chip on your shoulder about something.

What is it specificlally that you think you should have dealt with Debby directly about? I thought you were just here to warn us to do our homework before donating to any non-profit, and that you had no agenda at all about Prairie Wind. Oh ok, I never did think that, but that is what you said. Like I said, you're not credible.

[NicoMoon]

Sorry, it takes a bigger hammer than you've got right now to make our knees jerk.

Amen to that, WD! Great post, btw! It's gratifying to see someone standing up for reason and common sense in the face of this kind of irrational assault.

What the heck is going on here, do you have a clue? It makes no sense that this person just happened to find your original post about Prairie Wind on our still tiny little board. Just the fact of "Cindy's" presence here strongly indicates some kind of obsession with the refuge.

Oh well, it's a great opportunity to promote the cause. I know I keep threatening to go live on that radio any day now, but "any day" will be here soon, and when it comes, I'd like to do a program on Prairie Wind that we can also archive and promote via RSS and Press Release, if you, Debby, or anyone else from Prairie Wind is interested.

We can include "Cindyfortheanimals" also, but whoever it is will have to provide verifiable credentials. Otherwise, Cindy can be invited to participate in the "Troll of the Day" show. Maybe that's the only way to get to the bottom of what makes people who interact like this tick. :disbelief

[NicoMoon]

When I went to Prairie Wind, I saw the faces of the deserving live and in front of me. People have told me I can't save the world. They are right, but I CAN make a difference in my own backyard and with my own two hands. I also can't change the past, and rather than dig through PWAR's history (which amounts to sorting fly scat from the pepper) I am focusing on the animals that are there today. All of us are proud to be part of it. We truly care for these animals and hold them in our hearts wuth the greatest esteem, respect and awe.


Hi Debby,

It's nice to meet you, and thanks for sharing your story with us. I greatly admire the work you are doing, and I can only imagine that it must be very gratifying.

The Prairie Wind refuge is new to me, but I'm glad we're finding out more about it. "Cindy's" posts here indicate that there is some kind of controversy going on here, or someone has agendas that aren't being revealed. Very odd, isn't it?

It's a shame, really. I do know that there are non-profits that exploit and abuse animals, but I can't find any damaging information about Prairie Wind, it seems like a pretty straightforward group to me. Not to mention that you're here with references from our very well respected member, Whirling Dervish, so therefore afforded much credibility.

Let's see what Livewire.FM can do to assist you in getting the word out, and raising the needed funds, Debby. I have a lot on my plate getting the site up and running, but we'll be happy to include mention of Prairie Wind in our PRs and advertising campaigns, and also to run a radio broadcast on the topic if that's something you'd be interested in participating in or helping us get coordinated.

I guess we can't be too obscure, since Cindy found us fast enough!! :)

[LightHeart]

Stop calling me an arm chair quarterback, I am an armchair detective!! :dork:


Sorry Nico, I'm just in one of those moods!

[NicoMoon]

Stop calling me an arm chair quarterback, I am an armchair detective!! :dork:


Sorry Nico, I'm just in one of those moods!

No need to be sorry for giving us a good chuckle, LH!! :lol:

It was a good one, and relevant as well!! Humor that is clever enough to succinctly make the point is the best kind! :clapping:

[Whirling Dervish]

It makes no sense that this person just happened to find your original post about Prairie Wind on our still tiny little board. :disbelief
Indeed, Nico. And happens to be from Denver, happened to have a meeting where all names were brought up but mine. Lordy the list goes on.

And I only mentioned the exact website and this post to one other soul in my personal circle.

I just googled all possible permutations of Prairie Wind Animal Refuge with and without Whirling Dervish and it's permutations. Nothing leads to this board.

That leaves my personal link, right? If you see a leak in the logic, please point it out and I'll check that avenue.

[NicoMoon]

That leaves my personal link, right? If you see a leak in the logic, please point it out and I'll check that avenue.

The only logic leaks I see are coming from Cindy, WD.

Do you have some idea of who this person might be, or what their agenda is? That's what's confusing me. Who would try to thwart a cause like this?
I could understand if there were allegations of abuse, but there aren't.

It's all very odd!

[BigCatLover]

Hi Nico,

Apologies for my absence. I would be honored at any help you would be willing to extend!

I have been busy at the Refuge. Some dear friends were relocated this weekend. Sadly, we said goodbye to 5 of our residents. They are in great hands though - I am sure. There new home is http://www.wildcatsanctuary.org/Tour/VirtualTour.html. They are not on the site yet as they have only been there since yesterday.

I will be working harder than ever at fund raising now. There are many mouths to feed still and much care to give.

I am, at the same time, pondering some of the biggest life changes I have ever pondered. Of course these include PWAR. Will elaborate more on this as things progress (or don't).

Thanks for your interest, concern and enthusiasm.

For the critters,

Debbie

[Whirling Dervish]

The only logic leaks I see are coming from Cindy, WD.

Do you have some idea of who this person might be, or what their agenda is? That's what's confusing me. Who would try to thwart a cause like this?
I could understand if there were allegations of abuse, but there aren't.

It's all very odd!

It is, indeed, very odd. But I have some idea now due to the one contact I mentioned earlier. I'll post when I'm sure--that's the only fair thing to do.

I'm beginning to understand how political all this may be. It seems that competition for funding for these entities--and all nonprofits--is fierce. At the same time, I have also come to think that when similar nonprofits go to sword-and-shield battle, their poor charges lose.

It's an apalling truth that power too often comes before the innocent. The real travesty lies there.

[BigCatLover]

Indeed - THAT is the truest of travesties.

I guess the fundraising grindstone may not include grain from that source. Seems the bread is too bitter. I will have to sharpen my marketing blades.

[NicoMoon]

I'm beginning to understand how political all this may be. It seems that competition for funding for these entities--and all nonprofits--is fierce. At the same time, I have also come to think that when similar nonprofits go to sword-and-shield battle, their poor charges lose.



Wow, that's so disturbing to think about, but it does shed a light on the oddness of this person's sudden appearance here.

It's so true that the charges will be the losers in a battle like this if Cindy or anyone insists upon waging one. All it does is make people generally suspicious of all similar groups.

I hope "Cindy" has a re-think.

[NicoMoon]

I am, at the same time, pondering some of the biggest life changes I have ever pondered. Of course these include PWAR. Will elaborate more on this as things progress (or don't).

Thanks for your interest, concern and enthusiasm.

For the critters,

Debbie

Hi Debbie,

No apologies are necessary here! I look forward to hearing of your life changes! I suspect that they will be meaningful to others besides just yourself!

I'm working on getting this broadcasting function honed so we can begin to discuss these topics on air, which I think will add a new dimension to issues like these. So much more can get said in the same time it takes to write posts, so I'm looking forward to being able to give Prairie Wind some meaningful coverage very soon.

Thanks for sharing with us here at Livewire.FM. We're here to support folks of conscience and action like you, so it's a pleasure for us when you visit. :)